Riding the Wave of Innovation

In this episode…

Nic Cary interviews Dax and they discuss the lessons learned during his career journey including:

• The key drivers for navigating and succeeding in emerging fields like blockchain and fintech are curiosity and resilience.
• The importance of mentorship and collaboration is crucial in achieving professional growth and pioneering new legal practices.
• The adoption of sustainable and innovative practices can address major challenges and lead to long-term success in both tech and agriculture.

Sponsor for this episode:

This episode is brought to you by Sky’s The Limit, one of the largest nonprofit programs for underrepresented young adult entrepreneurs in the US. Sky’s The Limit is a quick-growing digital platform that connects entrepreneurs with their peers, volunteer business mentors, training resources, and funding.

Our goal is to develop the social capital that founders need to chase their business dreams.

To learn more, please visit www.skysthelimit.org today.

Episode transcript

Intro (00:04):

Welcome to the First Buck podcast where we feature stories about entrepreneurs and the people who support them. Now let's get started with the show. 

Nic Cary (00:25):

Hello and welcome to The First Buck Podcast, brought to you by Skysthelimit.org. We feature stories about entrepreneurs and the people who support them. Today we're joined by Dax Hansen, a partner at Perkins Coie, a leading international law firm. In his role, Dax helps innovators transform and adopt technology and financial services. He's a technology, transactions and regulatory attorney who has pioneered blockchain, digital currency, payments, and FinTech law. Dax has advised clients on many industry firsts, ranging from the first Bitcoin exchanges and tokenized assets to the first public company adoption of Bitcoin as a reserve asset in the first mainstream non fungible token, NFT Auction. Dax is really a pioneer. Dax founded the firm's leading FinTech industry group, which has for many years served clients innovating and operating at the intersection of emerging technologies and money. He combines his technology expertise and experience of complex financial service regulatory regimes, including money transmission, anti-money laundering, prepaid access, unclaimed property, consumer credit, privacy and data security, payment processing to assist clients with all their product counseling, consumer and commercial contracting, business formation and industry consortia. Much of Dax' work is international and he maintains a Japan related technology practice. Besides all of that, Dax didn't include in this introduction, which I know of. He's also a farmer, and Dax is an entrepreneur himself. And so we're going to get to hear a little bit more about Oatman Flats, his incredible farm, and I want to hear a lot more about that. But Dax, we have a little tradition around here. Before we can get into anything we have to ask you, how did you earn your first book?

Dax Hansen (02:10):

Well, thanks for having me, Nic. I'm excited for this conversation. So I guess I found my first buck because as a kid I was always looking for money. I was looking for anything interesting, shiny objects. So my earliest memories were riding my big wheel out around in construction zones, looking for discarded money or shiny plugs of metal, the Pepsi Challenge, finding those caps, just looking for artifacts. I was metal detecting as a kid, so I was always just curious. I was looking around for things. I started collecting coins, but I started earning real money when I actually needed money in my life by doing a lot of grunt work. I was, first of all, I grew up in Arizona. It was really hot. So during the summers it was scorching, but what I ended up doing was getting the jobs that almost nobody wanted. I was roofing up on black tar paper, putting tile up there. I was laying down carpet. I was being a helper on a Shock Creek crew. And by the way, my dad owned a concrete pumping business, so he was in the construction industry. And so some of that just came naturally, and I viewed that good, hard, honest work as quality work, right? And I wasn't afraid of that, and I was taught how to work hard in those areas. But maybe my first solid buck came from Sky Mall. You might remember that in-Flight Magazine company

(03:52):

That one of our family friends and our church members, Bob Worsley, was getting ready to start this business. He had the idea that you could order something from an airplane and then pick it up when you arrived. And so he built this business. He launched it around the Phoenix Airport at Sky Harbor Airport, and I was hired to go do, first of all, to do some sales, but also do deliveries. So at the time, the model was literally, there was a warehouse, and when someone ordered on the airplane, we'd pick it up, pick up the stuff, and we'd drive it to the airport and I'd meet 'em at the gate. This was before nine 11. And so I'd hand him this bag full of hammock or schlemmer, whatever, like some devices, massage, whatevers and slippers. I did that until I was able to move my way up. The founder there asked me what I want to do with my life, and I said I wanted to practice law. And so he ended up giving me a job that he called a legal aid. I was probably practicing illegal law, illegal practice of law that I had no credentials, but I was there to be a liaison between the company and their outside counsel, and that's where I got my first taste of law, and I earned a consistent buck for several years.

Nic Cary (05:10):

Okay, I love this. So we start off basically as a detectorist, finding things out in the wild to becoming a handyman, to really, it's sort of an interesting new concept, which was Sky Mall was a big deal when it launched. I remember flying when I was a little kid and going through the magazine and picking out all the cool things I wanted to have someday, and then your foray into law. So let's talk a little bit about that. I mean, you've had a distinguished career as a legal practitioner. What were sort of the things that were pivotal from the early stages, and then how does one become partner at a law firm? Talk to us a little bit about that part of the story arc.

Dax Hansen (05:53):

Sure. Okay. So I had spent time in Japan as a foreign exchange student, a rotary foreign exchange student for my senior year of high school. And I'd started a church service mission there for two years. And so my idea was always to combine law and Japanese culture, business technology somehow. And so I sought out during law school, sought out firms that had Japan practices, and I ended up finding a lawyer named Damien Smith who was up here in Seattle who was running Japan practice. I just cold called him one day and he interviewed me in Japanese immediately, and he said, Hey, I think I use somebody like you. There's probably a whole nother story here, but I got to per kiwi through a very non-traditional route, even though I was in law school, they gave me a position that they created a new position for me because there wasn't a traditional position for me.

(06:47):

Came up, started this idea I was going to practice Japanese law, and then that lawyer left the firm. So I got here and I started to still build out a Japan practice, but I was clerking here in 97 and 98. I joined officially in 99, which your listeners would recognize as the formative years of internet law development. I joined right at the time that two of my partners, Tom Bell and Al Ari were forming internet law. They were bringing the discipline of internet law to the fore and trying to put some sort of structure to it. And so I joined the business group at Perkins Coie at that time and ended up catching that bug, that interest in the internet and started working with Tom Bell at the time, we're sort of dividing up what's all the business as you move from bricks and mortar to online.

(07:42):

There are certain categories like commerce, e-commerce, and ultimately there's social media, but there was a category of just financial services and we called it electronic financial services, kind of like e-commerce. And that was a category that I started working in. And because of some departures, including some of the leading household names like Amazon, Amazon hired one of the junior partners who was running that electronic financial services practice. His name was John Morgan. They hired him to go build their payments business Amazon payments. And so that left a hole. And as a fifth year associate at Perkins Coie, I was able to step in and take over that practice. It had been built for maybe five or six years before that had lots of interest in clients. And so in addition to having a general tech practice, a Japan practice, I ended up inheriting this electronic financial services practice.

(08:33):

It was small and fledgling, but I got so interested in all of these areas of the law and started just advising companies, making FinTech law. FinTech wasn't even a category and I just made it up. And that became the basis then for the crypto work around the time I met you, Nick, is that I had done a bunch of, I'll call it old school virtual currency projects like points and bucks and all sorts of other things. And so when Bitcoin popped onto the scene and their entrepreneurs are trying to build around Bitcoin, I think they searched like virtual currency lawyer. And I was one, only one lawyers who popped up. I had written on it. And that led to me being, I think probably the first Bitcoin lawyer to actually have a practice around this and built Perkins COE's practice. So there's a lot in there to unpack, but I guess I'll just say I joined as a really interesting time.

(09:33):

I started practicing law when innovation was exploding around the internet. I became a subject matter expert when there were very few subject matter experts. I became one, and I specialized in that intersection of technology and money and money and technology never go out of style. And so I've just ridden that wave my entire career. And because I've had interesting work for the most interesting companies and most exciting entrepreneurs, I've just been successful at Perkins Coie as a lawyer and been promoted and I easily made partner and I've easily been a pretty successful partner here at Perkins Co. Ever since.

Nic Cary (10:16):

Looking back on that story now, it's just so interesting to see where those moments that basically scaffold opportunity for you were sort of just so present, like being in Seattle, having Amazon emerge as this darling of the internet, really during the first.com bubble, surviving it, and then building up these novel really legal practices around internet law and then transactional law using electronic money, and then with the invention of digital currencies, basically property rights on the internet, and to have all of those things sort of dabbled across your career. Pretty cool to hear about that and see those things. I think the way you talk about riding that wave is something that's very relatable to a lot of entrepreneurs when they're trying to find their path in a market and you want to be in one that's growing and moving and the sort of metaphor of surfing a wave when the wave comes, finding your line on that wave and riding it is one I think a lot of people that are entrepreneurs can relate to.

(11:22):

And so it's timing, it's experience, it's being in the right place, but then it's using your skills to do all those things effectively. I want to talk a little bit about the types of startups and growing companies that you've helped advise and done work for. What are some of the common trends or common traits that you've seen in the more successful businesses? What does it take to build a company from a fledgling idea to something more mature? And what are some of the things you've seen in the founders that have been able to do that?

Dax Hansen (12:00):

Yeah, great question. I mean, I've been fortunate to work with a lot of founders and some of the common traits I've admired are a real strong work ethic. They work hard, they have taken time to understand what's going on around them. They're very insightful people and they end up, I think having a practice of meditation or how they spend their time, they unplug from the masses and they observe the world around them, and then they come up with some insights. I think that I'd also say that they have fire in the belly, and usually they come off a little bit hard. These are people that are super obsessed with what they're doing. They may move fast, they may be a little bit me. They may not be very diplomatic, but they know they're right. And that just becomes it, for me at least, it's become, it was very attractive, very infectious. Like, okay, you want to go do this thing and you're trying to change the world. Well, I'm just going to help you. Right? They don't waffle. They're strong personalities. They find something that they really want to go do.

Nic Cary (13:26):

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I think one of the things we see in the Sky's limit community where we have all of these entrepreneurs that also need to spend time with other entrepreneurs because it's so hard to relate to their problem sets. They're focused on their customers or trying to figure out what the problems are, trying to figure out how to grow their businesses. And I think that your observation that these people are deeply passionate about those things and is just so important to basically persevere through the challenges.

Dax Hansen (13:59):

Well, can I ask add one more thing? It kind of relates also to my time Perkins cui, which was that one of my mentors here is named Tom Bell. He was the one who was founding the internet practice. And there was a time that when I was associate where I was writing documents, writing agreements, and I was trying to queue pretty close to forms and templates, find other examples of agreements. And there came a time when he just sat me down and said, look, don't feel bound by any of these forms. He said, just make it up. Nobody else knows how to do this. When you're doing the new work, like internet law or whatever you're doing, there's not a template for it. And so just make it up. And it gave me so much courage just to unplug from any of the convention and just do it my own way.

(14:52):

And I'd say that in this space of with blockchain and decentralization and Web3 and generative ai, these are all open source protocols, open technologies. You don't have to have any preexisting background or social demographic profile. You just have to be curious and you have to dig in and figure something out. And so I think that anybody can get a start if they're curious and they believe in themselves and got some fire in the belly, just kind of why not them? Especially if you're involved in the new thing. And what's fascinating right now is just how fast the innovation happens in technology, these trends is that there's green fields everywhere you look, and so you just jump in and you become qualified and capable in an area. Then lots of other people should be willing to pay you money if you're better at that one thing than a lot of other people around you.

Nic Cary (15:56):

One of the things you said, Dax, I really appreciated was accrediting this mentor of yours, Tom Bell. And one of the things I've noticed with successful businessmen, leaders like yourself and entrepreneurs, is that they have forged relationships with individuals that can help 'em see their blind spots, give them some courage to take on extra risks or challenges, that kind of thing. And so I'd love to hear a little bit more about what's your advice to young entrepreneurs out there, or even people going through their careers in law, how should they think about finding mentors and advisors, and what role have those mentors and advisors played for you and how they helped you in your career?

Dax Hansen (16:45):

Well, one thing that I learned as a lawyer, how to be successful as a lawyer was to make my partners and my clients look good. That's my job. And it is not to take credit for things to make other people look good. And so what I then was all about doing with these partners was trying to find trends, ideas, memos, white papers, things they could send on to their clients, add value to other people's businesses. And when I started adding value to them, then they pulled me in and then they connected me in. When I sit down and I start talking to a client, for instance, I immediately get absorbed in their story. I've tried to listen well, and rather than trying to haw my wares, it's like, well, let me just hear what's going on and then lemme be a response to that real time feedback.

(17:42):

But I'll just say that that's how it was with me with mentors too, is like that. I found people, I tried to contribute to a group, contribute to an organization, and I tried to look people in the eye and show them that I was a hard worker, and I asked, how can I help? And there were some people who thought, well, I could probably put this young pup to work, and Tom Bell was one of 'em. Guidari is another one that I spent a lot of time with Bob Worsley from Sky Mall. He took a risk of me. I was doing some other non-traditional role, but somehow I just let it be known in that conversation what I wanted to do, and I wanted to be productive, that I showed a little bit of the fire in the belly. I think these days, what may be lacking a little bit is just the personal connection.

(18:28):

When you can get somebody in a room and you can actually look at them in the eyes and you can shake 'em with a firm handshake, it conveys something like, this person is reliable, this person is put on this earth to play some sort of a role. And when you disconnect people from those sort of human experiences, you lose something, right? And then it's like you're kind of behind the curve. So I just think the best way you can find a mentor is be out there, be anywhere with people, and try to add value and try to solve a real problem rather than how am I going to pad my wallet or how to pad my resume? How do I contribute? And I think those opportunities will naturally find themselves because people find each other. I mean, I found that with my practice, I founded this practice around FinTech and crypto. I've got the best and brightest minds who have come from every firm, every company, every law school. It's almost like magnetic. They found their home here. And I think that if you know what you want to be and you're open to being pulled like a magnet, you'll find the people, you'll know who the people go to an event, pay your own way, show up, stand outside, hand somebody a business card, whatever. But you got to believe in yourselves. I think you got to hustle.

Nic Cary (19:57):

I think the lesson you're sort of getting to is, and I see it so obviously in your career, is investing in these relationships, building up social capital, sharing that social capital around actually creates real capital and it pays it forward. And that's one of the things I find through my volunteering at Sky's the limit is that I get to really forge these really meaningful relationships with people I otherwise wouldn't necessarily get to know well. And I really not only enjoy it, but I learn a lot and it's a really rewarding thing to participate in. Absolutely. So you've hired a lot of people across your career. One of the things entrepreneurs all will end up struggling with at some point is team building and surrounding themselves with people that can augment their talents and skills. So how do you think about putting people in your organizations? And then also, do you have a favorite interview question? I always like to ask that one.

Dax Hansen (21:00):

Well, one of my favorite techniques was I would take interview candidates down to a place on the waterfront called the Crab Shack or the Crab Pot or something like that, where it is like a seafood boiler. They dump all the food on the table on paper, and you got crab, you got a crack, you could use your hand with a bin. And so if I had a candidate, I'd take them there, and if they ordered a salad, I was like, okay, I don't know that I can be in the trenches with this person, but if they're bring it on and they're getting juice all over them, then I thought, all right, well, these are the people that when the going gets tough, I can rely on. That's usually the question I've asked. How well do you work in a team? How well are you at working under pressure?

(21:48):

Because at least in this profession, you're kind of in a pressure cooker. People hire us when they have big problems that they can't solve on their own. And so you got to be able to manage stress well. You got to be able to communicate well. You got to be part of a team and almost create a family. So for me, I'm looking for that sort of loyalty and commitment and also just commitment to a topic that I started practicing this crypto law well before it was profitable for years, we lost a lot of money. I had very small bonuses for a very long time until all of a sudden I was making a lot of money because I made money with the industry. But I've always just thought, if you do the right thing, money follows that. And so it's getting the priority straight. And so I guess that's kind of what I'm looking for with people is are they here just because trying to get something out of me or make money, or are they here to contribute? Are they intellectually curious? And I look for the latter.

Nic Cary (22:51):

Yep. You alluded to something, and I think it's a good opportunity to talk about your latter stage entrepreneurial venture with the farm. You talked about how your experience at the law firm planting seeds in an emergent industry then allowed you to harvest later. And I think one of the things that's kind of funny is we all sort of get back to the land in a weird way, and we talk about business cycles in the entrepreneurship world where you make investments and then you got to make hay when the sun shines. And these old expressions are really about capturing opportunity when the market is growing or when there's a good opportunity to sell and make money. And so I want to hear about your farm and what you're doing in the organic movement and this passion you have for this work in your new chapter of being an entrepreneur on top of all the other things you're doing. So talk to us about Oman Flats, the ranch in Arizona.

Dax Hansen (23:51):

Yeah, thanks. It's an exciting topic for me. Quick grounding. So Oman Flats Ranch is one of the most historic farms in ranches in the west. It's 665 acres along the lower Gila River in southwestern Arizona. But people have been living and farming there for thousands of years, and all the main thoroughfares and routes, pony express, barfield stage, the 49 ERs at Southern all went through this farm. And my family ended up, my grandpa ended up buying it in 1955, and it's been really the Hansen identity. Well, fast forward since that time. And that area has been ravaged by climate change and desertification. It's like ground zero for climate change and desertification in the United States. But what many people don't realize is that we're having a redo of the dust Bowl. Okay? The ground table has dropped, the rivers have dried up. We've almost crashed the Colorado River and all the related watersheds around it. Things don't grow anymore down there easily. It's hot. We've overused our soil. There's no topsoil anymore. So it's been really a disaster.

(25:10):

So for me, about six years ago, my family, my aunts were going to sell this farm, and I couldn't bear to lose the history really of all of it, and I couldn't afford to lose our identity. So I bought it just to keep it from blowing away like sands of ancient Egypt. It was about at that point. So it's been more about a conservation endeavor, but what I've realized in that process is that almost everything about agriculture and food and health are broken. That environment, climate, food, health, they're all major problems. These are the biggest problems I've ever seen. I solve big problems for a living. I have never seen this big a problem. The farmers get 7 cents out of every dollar. Consumers end up getting autoimmune disorders.

(26:07):

All the pollinators and the insects and the bugs and animals are all disappearing. And so we got to do something to reverse the trend. And so what I found, I looked backwards and forward. I looked at the ethno botany of the region, like what used to grow there. And I looked at climate change about what's going to happen, and I found these native and drought adapted crops that had been showcased products for centuries in that area. And that grew on very little water and rough conditions. And I started to build the markets for those. And so I grow things like white sonora, wheat, mesquite, agave. I run sheep out there on the 665 acre farm. Then I made products out of that. The commodity system is going to kill all the farmers in my view. You can't make enough money to regenerate the land. We built pancake mixes and bread mixes and vanilla extract and soft pretzels and baked breads.

(27:08):

And we're finding all of those items that are value added products. And we're building the market primarily in Arizona. Phoenix area has 6 million people to the largest metropolitan areas, but we're also pursuing direct to consumer. And one of the things, Nick, that is really interesting to me is that I've been helping companies move from a centralized model to a decentralized model, web two to Web3, and we need to do the same thing in environment, climate and health and food. We need to go back to bo, direct to consumer, peer to peer, let the stakeholders have more influence in the outcomes of these things. And so what I'm really trying to do is everything I've learned in that space and translate it to a physical world, but I brought technology. So I bring in QR codes like blockchain based provenance and reporting on nutrition, on practices and all the rest so that it's accessible through a QR code.

(28:12):

But one of the things that I challenge your listeners to reach out to me about is how do you bring technologies like blockchain, like AI to bear on these big problems of climate change health? Because I'm convinced that we now have new tools in our toolkit that we never had before. We've sort of been in this sort of demoralized position that's like, well, it's just going to happen to us. Well, I dispute that it would've happened to us if we didn't have new tools. But we've innovated our way to, we actually, we have tools where we could solve problems. We can identify what are the techniques, how do you crowdsource trends, how do you bring incentives like the Bitcoin mining processing, that incentive structure, something like that can be brought to improve environment and food and health.

Nic Cary (29:03):

Well, you just taught me a lot about farming in a very brief period of time that I think my previous knowledge of it was basically captured by Clarkson's farm. I dunno if you've watched that TV show, but it's basically about this British personality. Jeremy Clarkson was on top gear, and then he owns a farm out in the uk and he learns all about the process of taking care of his land. And I think that what you described, this integrated systems collapse across our agriculture, our food, our health. These are big problems. And whenever there are big problems, that also means there are equally big opportunities to address and solve those things. And those have to be addressed and solved by the next generation of entrepreneurs.

Dax Hansen (29:51):

Exactly. And just on that point, some of my friends now, they sit to me and say, Hey, Dex, why didn't you insist more that I invest in Bitcoin back when you knew all about it? I'm like, guys, I told you. And then they say like, well, what's the next big thing? And they're thinking, I'm going to tell 'em about another point. I'm like, guys, you need to look at regenerative agriculture, that there's a lot of opportunity in regenerative agriculture because regenerative agriculture is where you're going to find the solutions. Regenerative, organic, certified, it's a standard that Patagonia, Yvan, Chenard, Patagonia, Dr. Broner, the ROT Institute founded. But people might think, oh, well that's kind of odd. Where's the opportunities there? But there's a ton. They said, big problem, big solution. And bringing tech to bear in that way. You can get all of the major companies involved. You see the SEC proposals around climate change, the OCC and others fed asking banks to come with policies around climate change. There is a big tech solution. There's a lot of entrepreneurship in this area, which by the way, has sort of seen a flight out of a lot of the best and the brightest. So you can bring the best and brightest to regenerate the land. We all feel better, and I think you can make money out of it.

Nic Cary (31:10):

Yeah. Well, this has been such a great conversation, Dax. I've got one more question for you because you've had this story arc that I just love from the, we Dax out there, like you said, finding little coins and collecting them and learning about money, and then learning about sales and doing the grunt work, putting in the long miles, then going into the heavy practice of law and establishing entire new disciplines around legal practices, the early stages of the internet, and taking this step now to get back to the land and run an entrepreneurial initiative with your family farm. So I think a lot of entrepreneurs have this sort of sense that everything is sort of scary. It can be really stressful. What advice would you give to entrepreneurs out there that are just sort feeling overwhelmed or young entrepreneurs that are at the beginning of their entrepreneurial journey? What are some tips you can give them about getting through that over the long run, surviving the feast and famines out there? What would you say to them?

Dax Hansen (32:23):

Well, so there's a book that I read a number of years ago called the Marshmallow Test, which was really interesting to me. It's about this experiment where these experiments put a marshmallow in front of these kids, and they asked them if they sat there and just didn't eat the marshmallow for 10 minutes, then they'd give 'em two marshmallows, and they watched how the kids responded. But the book is about our brain and how to cool things down and heat things up and to self distance. And what I realized is a lot of the stress and the emotion and consternation that we all feel and that I felt as a professional can be dealt with this great tool that we have called as our brain. And so I read that book, and then every day I take time in the mornings to, I'll call it meditate, but I ask myself questions, self distancing to ask yourself, there's this acronym, it's called Blast Off. Are you bored, lonely, angry, stressed, tired, overwhelmed, or fearful? And I grew up in the macho era where men couldn't, boys couldn't have emotion.

(33:33):

But I've learned since that it's really healthy to just understand how am I feeling, and then to address it. And so every day I go out, walk around on Bainbridge Island, and I ask myself those questions. And if one day I'm feeling stressed or overwhelmed or something, and the previous day there was a trend, I just realized that's an erroneous thought and an erroneous feeling. And I'm able to just, with this marshmallow text, honestly, there's this concept envision you scooping all of that stress up and putting on the ball, then smashing in, blowing it away. And so now I've got to the point where I can do that in 15 minutes. I can go from being stressed when you wake up in the morning to no stress, and then I'm back to optimizing my day. And so I get that done early and then I'm off to the races until I run out of steam at night and I start a whole thing over the next day.

Nic Cary (34:25):

I like it. So basically, it's important for people to take that time to mend their mind. It's restorative, and it can be done through meditation, prayer, exercise, and mending those ideas and thoughts and letting them be present and then letting them drift off too. And just like anything, you can be better at those things by practicing them. And I've found that people that invest in that discipline for themselves basically alter the volatility curve of emotions to a state where it's a little smoother and it's not an easy thing. And we all deal with crazy tragedies and difficulties across our lives, but things do get better and can get better if you work on 'em. So thank you, Dax. We covered an awful lot. I think if I could summarize some of the things you said that really stood out to me, which is entrepreneurs out there, pursue your passion, be curious, invest in yourself, really understand and be observational about the problems that your clients or customers or potential business partners have so you can be acutely addressing those and to not be afraid and find mentors and advisors to help you along the way and to give back as well.

(35:46):

And yeah, and I think looking into the future, you said something that stuck with me, which was, I think decentralizing things is just so important to put people closer to the problems, to incentivize systems in a local context more. And I've been seeing it for a long time, but I think the future is going to be more decentralized, and that's a good thing. And so appreciate all of your perspectives on this today. Thanks again. We really appreciated having you Dax. So at skysthelimit.org, we connect underrepresented entrepreneurs with business volunteer professionals for free. one-on-one mentoring. We also provide business guides to all of our members, plus monthly funding opportunities. So you can sign up for free today.

Outro (32:25):

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